For South African-born, Colorado-based singer/songwriter Gregory Alan Isakov music may have always came second to his primary devotion in life of farming, but just like the rising sun, it came every single day.

"Music was always in my life," he says. "I always play it before work and after work. It was like eating dinner or something. It's just like part of your day. You do it every day. I never thought in a million years I get to do it. Like for a job like this, it's the coolest thing ever."

Isakov has been touring the world with his music while maintaining his farm duties. And with his fifth album, 2019's Evening Machines, his impressive musical career reaches new heights, earning him his first career GRAMMY nomination for Best Folk Album.

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We caught Isakov on the phone from his farm to talk songwriting, the making of Evening Machines, and learn about the faraway place he was when he found out he'd been nomated for a GRAMMY.  

Congrats on the nomination! What was your reaction to being nominated for a GRAMMY for the first time?

I was in Dubai when I found out, I was about to walk on stage because it was a... I forget the time difference. It's pretty big difference. But I was about to walk on stage opening up for a friend of mine at the Dubai Opera House and I was just feeling... It was the first solo show I had played in probably all year. And I was very nervous and I got that news and I just sat in the dressing room and I was all by myself. I didn't have anyone to tell. I just walked down the hallway to like try to tell somebody. And then they're like, "You're on in one minute."

And I was like, "Okay." And then I thought, "Oh I'm not nervous anymore and whatever.  I just give you the worst set ever that's going to be okay." And then I remember I cried actual tears of joy by this. I found this abandoned pool like in near a hotel later. And I was like, "Wow, this is so surreal. Like I never dreamed that this like anything like that would ever happen to me."

What a surreal way to find out. I'd love to ask you about the album and making, I understand you did at home on your farm. What were the days like while recording Evening Machines?

You know, this was probably the quickest I've ever made a record, and I did it in about a year, a year and a half, which sounds like a long time. For me. It's pretty fast. I made it mostly at night and I have a studio here at our farm, and it's minimal. And I think all my records had been sort of bedroom records in the sense I've never really loved studios. They've always really intimidated me, I think. And so I've always made records out of my room and then I mix them somewhere else. And for this one I just left all the gear on like all the time and everything was mic'd up during the growing season because I work, my other job, I grow food for a few restaurants. And I always had everything set up.

And Andrew, my engineer would come from Fort Collins three days a week to just help me kind of set up mics. And when I was playing drums he would help me record that. I was always running, running back and forth. But it was a lot of just that that kind of image that you would have like with a mad scientist with a swinging light. Like a lot of nights I spent like that just sort of trying to find these, these noises that I needed and what the songs needed. I recorded about 35 almost 40 songs and then there's just some that just lived together really well. And I remember in the spring I was getting the whole season prepared outside and I was sort of just going through trying to find a playlist. That's really important to me, the order of the songs and it happened pretty naturally.

I wonder if you could go a little deeper on the production of the album, because the sound of this album is full, gorgeous and lush. Where did this sort of vision for the sonic space this album lives in come from?

It's always been a part of my aesthetic in production and arrangements like that I've carried on from my last records. I set out to make like a low-fi rock and roll record. That was when I started out, that's what I thought was going to happen. And then the record sort of just took me into a completely different place. I did a lot of it takes live, just guitar, vocals live. And then I would track around it. I did choose songs with our drummer Max and the rest of the songs I played drums on myself.

I would spend weeks and weeks and weeks in the studio and then I found that was the most valuable for me, it was the time that I would spend away from the songs so I could come back and be like, "Does this still work?" Because I think when you come with an arrangement, like for "Too Far Away." I thought "Okay this is a strong melody, and it really does, it's transporting me. But I don't know if it's real because I'm so close to it". Because a lot of the arrangements on songs that you'll be really stoked on in the moment, you'll come back and be like, "Well I don't really feel anything." And you're attached to how much you worked on it.

But then you'll come back and be like, "Well it doesn't matter." No one cares how long someone spends on anything. Like it just matters. If it makes you feel something and if it does its job, you know?

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Absolutely. Is there a song on the album that has grown on you in a new way since it's recorded?

Gosh, I haven't listened to the record since it is since it came out. And I got to hear it. I got to hear it once. And I say that I got to hear it because when you engineer and produce your own records, it's like you hear them so many times you don't know anything.

And I finally got a chance to actually hear it. I was in Vancouver. And I had a day off and it just put it on and I listened to it. And then there's the moments that you're like, "I totally see what I was going for. And I almost got there." In one, like a movement of a piece of music or something. But I really loved the record and I felt that feeling of like I've bled into this thing and I'm really glad that I like it.

As a songwriter, I'm curious which school you subscribe to: Is it the sit-down-and-write no matter what school, or do you wait for it to come to you?

A lot of songs don't come easy. I love writing songs because I don't have any clue how it f**king works or how to do it. I don't think it's evolutionary. Like if you've been writing songs for a certain amount of time to get better at it per se. Because every time you start you're at like ground zero again. You're at like trip reset and you'd have all these avenues that you can go down and it's the first time.

"I love writing songs because I don't have any clue how it f**king works or how to do it." -Gregory Alan Isakov

And in my experience, I don't think it has been evolutionary for me, but I have been noticing. I won't let the songs that I know aren't going to live, live as long anymore. I see them like, "Okay, this isn't going to work," and I can already move into a different direction and start something new quicker than I used to be able to do. But you know, I usually have a spark of something and then it sort of feels like this almost ineffable experience between working with this living thing like in the song, and I don't want it said that to sound too bucolic or new age or anything. It's just that it really does feel like a co-creative process for me.

That's a great answer. It's interesting considering that you farm because it almost feels like the same core principle. Was farming your first love?

Yeah, I went to school for horticulture and that's what I mainly did for work forever. And music was always in my life. I always play it before work and after work. It was like eating dinner or something. It's just like part of your day. You do it every day. I never thought in a million years I get to do it. Like for a job like this, it's the coolest thing ever.

And farming is great for me to do still because, In a lot of ways for me, it's the opposite where I'm like, "Okay, I have an hour of time, I can turn over those five beds. I can plant three of them." But with songwriting it's like weeks go by and you have no idea if there's been any progress. Time is the most elusive thing in music. Records take an immeasurable amount of time. I've never made one quicker than this one.

It's an interesting concept because music is a temporal art, and farming is certainly a temporal practice. Do you find any sort of deeper connection between the two or are they truly an escape from each other?

I definitely can. I mean there's definitely this sense of this mystery, this germination that happens with writing. I don't even think people really even know how germination, like botanically, works completely. But it is a certain sense of magic. But that all that information is in that one tiny seed. All their parents, genetic parents everything is right there. And then and I think there is something to that like with music because it's like you get this little spark and it's sort of let's just kind of see where this wants to go and help it as much as I possibly can. But to me a lot of writing is punching in. People ask me, "How do you get inspired?" And I'm like, "Man, if I waited for inspiration, I would not get anything done."

It really is like punching in every morning. Like an old clock. And some days, nothing happens. Some, some days a lot happens, you're not sure if you made progress. But I realized how much more it gets me to slow down and to notice the world. And a lot of the natural world makes it into my writing. But how much I have to slow down. And I love writers like Bruce Springsteen and Leonard Cohen. And they do things I can't do like Springsteen writes stories in a way that I can't. It just doesn't come natural to me. But they both have this way of like that of looking at a story kind of in a different way and making it completely new. And completely relatable. It's funny to talk about songwriting because I find, I don't even know how to do it.

Well, you're not alone in not being able to tell stories like Springsteen. I think we're all kind of chasing that...

Yeah. And I think there's something so beautiful about how there's so many different ways to tell a story. And for me, I sort of use little tiny images, like little pictures. And that's just the natural way for me. But I've found that like you'll listen to like "Ghost of Tom Joad" or something and it'd be like this dude living, crossing the border, making meth with his brother. Iit's these really intense stories. There's a gun, you know. What's bleeding?

And then you realize, then you're on a walk in a city that maybe is unfamiliar and you're by yourself, and there's nothing crazy going on. But there's so much poetry in what's happening every single moment. And it's good for me to remind myself. Like that's why I love like both Leonard Cohen and Springsteen, because they both have such opposites that way. We can have just the way of like something like a shadow or something hangs out on a wall or like. And you could spend a whole verse talking about that and really be saying something really provocative, you know?

Sure. You've toured all over the world. What keeps you sane and happy and mentally healthy on the road? What's your regimen?

Yeah, there's a lot of things. For me it's, it's a funny job to me because I love people. I just have never been that social, especially a lot of people at once. And so for me, I have to take an extra care of finding balance for that, because I really am out of my element. And it really does feel like I'm breaking my boundaries in a cool way. It's actually been really fun for me. But I spent a lot of time like walking by myself. I love photography, so I'll usually like walk around and shoot photos.

Sometimes if I'm in a certain part of the country I'm interested in like a certain farm that I know about. I'll go visit and try to get a tour. I take a lot of classes online. So I'm always like studying, mostly I'm in my bunk or the bus, like with the band like watching videos about turnips and reading about spacing of salad. Like super nerdy stuff like that. And after farming for a long time, I think being on the road is definitely harder on your body and your mind than any manual labor job I've ever had, just because there is, you're waiting around, you're sitting, you're in tight spaces. There's not a lot of alone time. There's alcohol around. There's just like the food's not the healthiest. So it's hard to navigate all that stuff. And when you're outside working 10 hour days, you're like, "Okay, I feel good." You know, everything's working.

One last question. You mentioned that you recorded a bunch of tunes for Evening Machines, but what do you plan a next for your music?

Yeah, so I actually just, I've been rerouting the studio this week and I'm making another record right now, kind of a stripped down record, and I'm trying to record some cover songs, too, with some friends of mine just like for fun, traveling all over the country and asking friends to sing songs. Just songs I love. Me and Leif Vollebekk are going to do one. And I'm asking Brandi Carlile to do one with me. Just a couple, just for fun, like finding old songs that I just love and just putting them out there,

But beyond that, I'm making another record. Hope should be some of the songs that didn't make it on Evening Machines, I'm reworking a few of those. But I've kind of out wrote myself. And so now I have some newer material that I'm more interested in, that I've been getting down, and so that's my main work right now.

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominees: Tank And The Bangas' Leader On 'Green Balloon,' Chilling With Michelle Obama & Quitting IHOP To Make Music

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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Another summer, another Newport Folk. The storied bastion of American roots music flourished once again, with three days of plucks, strums, harmonies and good cheer.

Lana Del Rey enjoyed her Newport debut, James Taylor made a surprise appearance (calling it "emergency folk music") and the Black Opry made waves — and GRAMMY.com was on the grounds for all of the excitement.

Backstage, a number of artists chatted about their experiences onstage, their love of the American roots community and more.

Watch all of the interviews below — and we'll see you at Newport Folk 2024!

Turnpike Troubadours

Nickel Creek

John Oates

Abraham Alexander

Bella White

Gregory Alan Isakov

Indigo de Souza

M. Ward

Thee Sacred Souls

Rob Grant

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It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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