meta-scriptBobby Z. On 'Prince And The Revolution: Live' & Why The Purple One Was Deeply Human | GRAMMY.com
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Bobby Z. in 1989

Photo: Jim Steinfeldt/Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images

interview

Bobby Z. On 'Prince And The Revolution: Live' & Why The Purple One Was Deeply Human

Prince is rock royalty for good reason, but that level of reverence threatens to do him a disservice: He was a human being who brought people joy. Here, Revolution drummer Bobby Z. discusses how their newly released live album highlights his multitudes.

GRAMMYs/Jun 7, 2022 - 09:33 pm

Did you know that Prince performed "Yankee Doodle" — yes, that "Yankee Doodle" — at the peak of his career?

It's true. Onstage in Syracuse, New York, during the Purple Rain tour in 1985, the seven-time GRAMMY winner and his Revolution bridged the lascivious "Take Me With U" and "Do Me, Baby" with the goofy schoolyard classic. As the wheedly melody gave way to shimmering drones, he delivered a voice-of-God monologue: "Can you see me?" he asked the audience with a hint of vulnerability. "Can you hear me?"

By now, almost everyone in the Western world has seen and heard Prince. As Revolution drummer Bobby Z. puts it, Prince has become the legendary Purple One — "this mythical, immortal character." But vaunting Prince as such threatens to do a disservice to one of the hardest-working people in showbiz — by making him some kind of deity.

"Everyone knew him as kind of this odd guy. It's a mystery that he became the coolest guy in the world, you know what I mean?" says Z, a two-time GRAMMY winner himself. What brought this odd duck to the zenith of rock-stardom? A vanishingly rare confluence of brain-breaking talent and the mother of all killer instincts. And those qualities are blindingly apparent on Prince and the Revolution: Live.

That's the name of the newly released Prince and the Revolution live album, culled from that very Syracuse show and released June 3 — four days ahead of what would have been his 64th birthday. (Although, it must be said, he didn't celebrate birthdays.) Featuring classics from "1999" and "Little Red Corvette" to "Let's Pretend We're Married" performed at a head-spinning velocity, the collection is a treasure worth beholding.

What separates it from the other spectacular Prince live releases, like 2018's Piano and a Microphone 1983? His most famous band at full tilt, which allowed Prince to be the most himself he could ever be. Yes, the genius who wrote "Darling Nikki" is here, but also the lovable nerd who could somehow get away with a sexy soliloquy over "Yankee Doodle."

Prince and the Revolution: Live presents The Artist in all his multitudes — the hornball poet, the compositional savant, the born bandleader, the guitar firebrand, the odd duck determined to prove himself. And once its two hours have passed, you'll be reeling from a full Prince immersion. He may have been royalty among rock stars, but he was also incontrovertibly human.

GRAMMY.com sat down with Bobby Z. about what fans will hear in Prince and the Revolution: Live — and what he believes is the most misunderstood thing about him.

When a fan picks up Prince and the Revolution: Live, what are they holding in their hands? What are we dealing with here?

What we're dealing with is basically: The Purple Rain tour had done 105 shows, and it was then time to decide what Prince wanted to do about Europe and Japan. To everyone's chagrin, he was already ready to move on. Before we even hit the stage in Detroit for the first show of the Purple Rain tour, Around in the World in a Day was already in the can. Mixed, mastered, ready to go.

And that was Prince! For him, it was like a secret: He was already on to the next thing, even though the public was still reveling in his music. So, the end of the road was coming, and there was going to be a break, and they were going to ship everything to Europe, and he said, "No."

His compromise was the relatively new invention of pay-per-view. Cable was just forming and things were just getting started. Satellites were starting to be available for commercial use. So, they came up with this innovative way to broadcast to Germany and then throughout Europe. They picked a couple of weeks before the end of the tour, which was Syracuse, New York, on March 30, 1985.

The [Carrier] Dome was a great location. He was fired up, and we performed live for the world. We recorded on tape, and now, Sony has expertly remixed and retooled and restored and brought this amazing show back to life.

It seems to have this quality that the greatest live shows have: unrepeatability. There were many superb Prince concerts, but there's only one of these.

Yeah. This [incorporated] many, many cameras and many, many angles. Any Prince concert shot well would be a memorable experience from his performance alone. But, I agree. The thing about Prince was that music was life and death. You can't move; your eyes are riveted. You are literally in suspended animation. It takes you to another place.

Whether he wanted it to or not, Purple Rain became a diamond because of the pressure, and the pressure was time. We now know that Prince would release an album per month if he could. He just had music flowing out of him. But we had to write the movie, rehearse the movie, shoot the movie, rehearse the tour, and then the record… there were many steps to this that created compression of time.

He had songs competing against each other. "The Beautiful Ones" kicked out "Electric Intercourse," which was a fantastic song that we recorded. The movie kicked it into high gear, and the tour was definitely the most ambitious, crazy thing to date.

I have to stop and give credit to LeRoy Bennett, the lightning designer who's now with Paul McCartney and Lady Gaga. He designed this amazing stage with elevators and Vari-Lites, which were the first versions of lights that move to the music. We called him the seventh member of the band. His genius made it even more spectacular.

What are your favorite moments on Prince and the Revolution: Live?

"Yankee Doodle" makes me chuckle. Any costume change, or when he would leave the stage, we had to create [backing vocalist] Lisa [Coleman] a moment. There are always these moments that are not just throwaway. Every moment was rehearsed and well-thought-out.

I loved just sitting back there and watching him play piano. I don't know if you saw the Beatles' Get Back; Ringo just watches McCartney. I kind of related to that. I just got to watch Prince's genius — sit there, take a breather and come in on cue. I had the best seat in the house.

That's what got me started — Ringo, and, of course, Buddy Rich on "The Tonight Show." It became interesting because I became a muse for electronic, playable drum machines unwittingly. 

Prince and I had a tech background. In the beginning, we were very unfamous together. I was working at his first manager Owen Husney's office as a driver and delivery boy. Prince would disrupt the office business and just ride around with me all day and do photocopy deliveries.

And we would shop for cassettes! Cassettes were so crappy that finding one with less hiss was [paramount]. So, the technical aspect really carried through. And when the Linn[Drum] happened — the drum machine — it was all new and pioneering. It was a far cry from Buddy Rich banging around on "The Tonight Show"!

Every decade has music that resonates and music that doesn't. To you, why does Prince's music endure?

Just like Lennon and McCartney, it's words and music. When you distill those songs — like he did at the very end, ironically, with Piano and a Microphone — and just take them and play them as songs with lyrics, they're beautiful, exquisitely-written songs.

When you add a powerful band behind it that's well-rehearsed and choreographed and lit and costumed and everything, it just enhances that. Prince had an unreal ability to write songs, and that's it right there.

So, it doesn't matter what the vibe is, or the flair, or the aesthetic — without a great song underneath, it's all bound to topple.

So many of them! And he's maybe the most prolific writer in all of history.

I met him, let's just say, in 1977. I knew him for 43 years. If you just say a song a day, you're probably not far off. You're talking about 14,000 songs. Cut that in half and it's 7,000 or 8,000 songs. I mean, this guy did that! And a great many of them were just incredible — and hits, on top of that!

By the numbers, it's staggering. But by theory, melody, as a percussionist — he did things on the three and two of a bar, unpredictable dots and pushes on a four-bar measure. There are only four bars and 12 notes in rock 'n' roll — sometimes it deviates — but what he could do with 4/4 time is incredible in its variation.

To embellish what we were talking about just a second ago, the recordings live on because of the nuances in these measures. In his repetitiveness, there's change constantly, which is known as ear candy, I guess. He could decorate a song in a way that keeps you listening and hearing new stuff every time you hear it.

**It's easy to take ultra-prolific artists from Prince to Stephen King for granted, but every artist's prolificity is driven by something. What internally drove Prince to create such a prodigious body of work?**

It's really hard to say. It goes back to the beginning. I used to think, "What would happen to him if this didn't happen?" because everyone knew him as kind of this odd guy. It's a mystery that he became the coolest guy in the world, you know what I mean?

When you meet the fans, [you realize] he attracted a different kind of person. He saved a lot of lives, in terms of giving people hope and direction. I think his hope was just a combination of DNA and a unique ability of music being like air, water, food. Just a strange adaptation of life in the music, in that it was just everything.

And performance was everything. Everything. Life was on the line. And he laid it out in a way that was just different from other musicians. I used to say he was like the Muhammad Ali of rock 'n' roll. He was after everybody, in a humorous way.

Do you think part of what drove him was plain old insecurity? Being the odd duck he was, I wonder if he felt that burning need to prove himself.

He wanted to prove himself over and over. And as a businessman, he did. The business became frustrating to him, the way the major-label system worked. He changed that. "The Artist" sold a hundred thousand albums out of his trunk, meaning on a website.

In so many ways, he gave artists a voice that still resonates to this day — about owning your masters and freedom and not giving away your rights in a very bold way. His challenge to the business is still giving artists confidence today — to speak up at a time when it was difficult to do that.

I think he evolved in so many different ways. We're talking about a little bit more innocent time. Syracuse was a dream realized. The movie, the album, the tour… it was definitely a long way from that '74 Pinto I was driving around doing photocopies.

For me to take him with him on that journey is something I will appreciate forever. He saved me from a normal life!

Prince aside, what's going on in your career? What else are you working on lately?

I've enjoyed producing records and assembling digital playlists for different labels. I really took to the streaming era and enjoy listening and spreading music in any way I can.

I ultimately enjoy playing with a band. We kind of resurrected the band after Prince passed. COVID stopped us, but we even played on the GRAMMY tribute to Prince, [which] was a fantastic evening. We got to play and honor our leader.

From your perspective, what's the biggest misunderstanding about Prince?

That he wasn't human. That he was this mythical, immortal character. In the early days, he was a band member. He was the leader, of course, but he had to be in a band. People got hungry; they wanted to go back to the hotel. He had to go through the motions at the beginning.

His work ethic was legendary, but at the same time, he had a warm side. He was funny. And the camaraderie was appreciated. He was kind of a binary character. Questions would be answered with questions. Sometimes, you couldn't get to the heart of the matter.

It would always be your choice on a musical part. You were right in his eyes or wrong in his eyes, but he appreciated the effort you put in. It's a big life lesson. He knew how to push people, but at the same time, he was a humorous, funny guy who enjoyed a good laugh.

He enjoyed a good concert. He was a fan. He loved being impressed by songs. He loved music. He loved other people's talent. He loved the whole thing about music, concerts, recording. He loved to learn about it and he loved to give it back.

I'm sure you miss him as much as ever.

Yeah, I do. I mean, the guy's intense. There's no doubt that having him in your life is a focus. My wife and I were talking the other day; he was great friends with her and loved her and gave us his blessing. But he's kind of more important than your parents sometimes!

He's really a presence in your life that you have to deal with. It's an honor and a privilege. It is sad that he's gone, but I definitely feel like it's important while the five of us are still alive, to carry this on and talk about his genius and his stage presence and skills as a bandleader.

It's critical. Life is short. And once we're gone, can anybody speak of it in the first person like this? They'll watch this thing, but it's great that people like you and others are pushing this and getting a whole new generation to see what Prince was.

I'll just say this: there's a lot of hubbub about the court, and who owns what, and how he passed, and the ending, and all that stuff. But what was all the fuss about to begin with? It was this. Just watch Syracuse; this is what the hubbub was. 

This is why Prince was Prince: because he was a figure skater up there. An unbelievable dancer, singer, performer, guitar player, bandleader. It's history, and there's nobody else like him.

Anything else you want to express about Prince and the Revolution: Live before we get out of here?

Just sit your kids down! And cover their eyes sometimes.

But, definitely, watch a real show, with real musicians playing real music. And watch some hard work in action that we loved giving back. He fired us up every night. At this particular show, he was frantic. He knew we were making history. He said it over and over again. And we did.

Robert Glasper & Terrace Martin On Removing Their Egos And Creating Their GRAMMY-Nominated Collaboration Dinner Party: Dessert

Prince at the 2004 GRAMMYs
Prince performs at the 2004 GRAMMYs.

Photo: Frank Micelotta/Getty Images

list

8 Ways 'Musicology' Returned Prince To His Glory Days

Twenty years after the release of Prince's commercial comeback, 'Musicology,' dig into how the album reminded the world of the Purple One's musical genius and legendary status.

GRAMMYs/Apr 19, 2024 - 02:00 pm

After nearly a decade in the commercial wilderness, Prince seemed determined to bring his music back to the masses with his 28th studio effort. While announcing its release, the Paisley Park legend had one thing to declare: "School's in session."

Eschewing the jazz fusion sound of his previous releases in favor of a more mainstream blend of pop, R&B, funk, and soul, Musicology proved to be a valuable lesson. It returned the megastar to the upper reaches of the Billboard 200, earned five GRAMMY nominations (and two wins), and reasserted Prince's place on the touring ladder. Even the previously dismissive critics came back on board, with Rolling Stone declaring it "as appealing, focused, and straight-up satisfying an album as Prince has made since who can remember when."

And while Prince was always a prolific artist, it seems Musicology was highly inspirational for the Purple One himself, too. Just two days after the album's release, Prince dropped both his 29th studio effort, The Chocolate Invasion, and his 30th, The Slaughterhouse, exclusively online.

Of course, it's the major label release that has become the more notable part of his remarkable oeuvre. Musicology paved the way for a string of further late-career classics and revived the legacy that's still going strong nearly ten years after his untimely death.

In honor of Musicology's 20th anniversary, here's a look at how Prince's masterclass reaffirmed his status as an artistic genius.

It Saw Prince Return To His Best Form… 

After three albums of jazz fusion (The Rainbow Children, Xpectation, N-E-W-S) and the piano-heavy One Nite Alone..., it appeared as though Prince was no longer interested in the melting pot of sounds that defined his imperial phase. But Musicology showed his polymathic tendencies were still intact.

Channeling the acts he explicitly namechecks (James Brown, Earth Wind and Fire, Sly and the Family Stone), the opening title track was the slickest, funkiest thing he'd put his mononym to in years. Accompanied by one of his most provocative videos, "Cinnamon Girl" harks back to the classic roots rock of the Rolling Stones, while the epic ballad "A Million Days," Marvin Gaye-esque soul of "Call My Name," and jam session "If Eye Was the Man in Ur Life" all further helped the record to live up to its "no boundaries" pre-release claims.

…And Also Saw Him Return To Lyrical Form 

It wasn't just on a musical level that Prince flourished. Whereas its predecessor was largely focused on his conversion to the Jehovah's Witnesses, Musicology's lyrics embraced more universal themes — from the domestic bliss of "Reflection" ("Did we remember to water the plants today") to infidelity drama "What Do U Want Me 2B."

Prince's sublime storytelling abilities are perhaps best showcased on "Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance," a money versus love debate involving a gigolo and a much older socialite. He also proved he could still tackle serious issues with "Cinnamon Girl," the story of a mixed-race youngster impacted by post-9/11 paranoia. Gossip hounds, however, will be most intrigued by "Life O The Party," which appears to take a blatant pot shot at one of his fellow '80s superstars ("My voice is getting higher/ And I ain't never had my nose done/ That's the other guy").

It Brought Him Back To The Charts

Prince had been one of the dominant Billboard 200 artists of the 1980s with Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, and the Batman OST all reaching No. 1. But thanks to the record company dispute that inspired his name change to an unpronounceable squiggle, uncommercial release strategies (several albums were only available via his NPG fan club) and the general law of diminishing returns, his chart appeal started to wane from the mid-1990s onward. In fact, 2001's The Rainbow Children peaked no higher than 109!

However, issued through Columbia (his first major label release since Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic on Arista five years earlier), Musicology completely reversed his fortunes. Reaching No. 3, it became the star's first top 10 album since 1995's The Gold Experience and his highest charting since 1991's Diamonds and Pearls.

It Pioneered A New Sales Strategy 

In 2017, more than a third of the year's Billboard 200 chart-toppers benefited from ticket bundles, a release strategy in which a chart-eligible free copy of a new album is given away — when manually redeemed — with each concert sale. This included The Killers' Wonderful, Wonderful, Shania Twain's Now, and Kenny Chesney's Live in No Shoes Nation, the latter becoming the first live album to reach the spot in seven years.

While this was the technique's commercial pinnacle, the idea was actually first instigated by Prince. Indeed, proving that he could still be ahead of the curve in his fourth decade as an artist, Musicology was automatically made available to anyone attending Musicology Live 2004ever for no extra charge. This accounted for 125,000 copies (roughly 25 percent) of the 632,000 sold in its first five weeks. In fact, the experiment proved to be so successful that Billboard decided to change its rules to avoid the potential for chart manipulation.

It Gave Him Further GRAMMY Glory 

Keen to remind everyone of his inimitable talents in time for Musicology's release, Prince graced the GRAMMYs stage just two months beforehand and, with a little help from Beyoncé, brought the house down. The two generational icons kicked off the ceremony with a spellbinding medley which included the former's "Purple Rain," "Let's Go Crazy" and "Baby I'm a Star" and the latter's "Crazy in Love."

The following year, Prince was back as a five-time nominee. Not only were they his first R&B nominations in nearly a decade, but his two wins — for Best Male R&B Vocal Performance for "Call My Name" and Best Traditional R&B Performance for "Musicology" — marked the Purple One's first GRAMMY wins since 1987.

It Set The Stage For A Trio Of Now-Classic Releases 

Prince certainly didn't waste the goodwill earned from his surprising commercial renaissance. In 2006, the Purple One achieved another major milestone when 3121 became his first album ever to debut atop the Billboard 200, knocking off the soundtrack from Disney phenomenon High School Musical in the process. Named after the address of the house he was renting during its recording, Prince's fourth U.S. chart-topper also spawned his first Hot 100 entry in seven years with the funky "Black Sweat."

Prince followed it up with 2007's No.3-peaking Planet Earth, a record controversially released for free as a Sunday newspapercovermount in the UK, but in the more traditional way this side of the Atlantic. And this particular golden period was wrapped up in 2009 with Lotusflow3r, a Target exclusive triple album also designed to showcase the talents of his latest protege Bria Valente, which reached No. 2. Without Musicology paving the way, this trio might not have attained late-classic status.

It Restored His Reputation As A Must-See Live Act 

While Prince had always remained a popular live draw no matter his commercial success, his touring presence since the start of the century had been a little unpredictable. His supposed 'world tour' of 2003 was largely confined to Australia; his One Nite Alone... run the year previously was more jazz club than regular gig, and 2001's A Celebration was reportedly cut short over a record company dispute.

Musicology fully restored him to must-see status. Its accompanying trek, which plotted 77 dates across 55 U.S. cities, sold over 1.4 million tickets, grossing a whopping $87.4 million along the way to become the most lucrative of 2004 — and the highest-grossing tour of Prince's career. Its success allowed Prince to launch a record-breaking 21-date residency at London's O2 Arena and the lengthier, guest-heavy Welcome 2 tour, during which he was joined on stage by everyone from Whitney Houston to Whoopi Goldberg.

It Fearlessly Embraced His Past 

Contrary to his previous array of jazz fusion albums, Musicology suggested Prince was now content to reconnect with his chart-topping megastar past. Its title track even concludes with some radio station surfing featuring snippets of "Kiss," "Little Red Corvette," and "If I Was Your Girlfriend."

It was a similar story with its accompanying tour. Giving exactly what his fans wanted, the set lists were largely comprised of his greatest hits, with his new album only getting a nod on a handful of occasions.

The Musicology era was Prince's way of showing that he hadn't forgotten why everyone fell in love with him in the first place, while simultaneously extending his creative legacy. Whether looking back at all of its accolades or checking out all of the celebrations on Prince's official Instagram page, it's clear that Musicology remains a vital part of the Purple One's catalog 20 years on. 

Behind 'Diamonds and Pearls' Super Deluxe Edition: A Fresh Look At Prince & The New Power Generation’s Creative Process

Sheila E. performs during the GRAMMYs Salute To Prince
Sheila E. performs during the GRAMMY Salute To Prince in 2020

Photo: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for The Recording Academy

interview

Living Legends: Sheila E. On Prince, Playing Salsa And Marching To The Beat Of Her Own Drum

"I was a percussion player leading my band, playing timbales, which no one really understood," Sheila E. says of her debut record. Forty years later, the GRAMMY-nominated multi-hyphenate is still forging her own path on the energetic new record, 'Bailar.'

GRAMMYs/Apr 5, 2024 - 01:22 pm

GRAMMY-nominated singer/songwriter, producer and percussionist Sheila E. has certainly had a glamorous life — and has done a lot with it. 

The child of percussionist Pete Escovedo and goddaughter of legendary timbalero Tito Puente, Sheila Escovedo has been energizing stages for most of her life. First performing as a child, Sheila was one of few female percussionists in the 1970s and '80s, and rose to the upper echelons of the music industry — performing alongside Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, Herbie Hancock and Diana Ross. Whether in session or onstage, her dynamism and inventiveness continually made Sheila the star of the show. 

"I think outside the box," Sheila E. tells GRAMMY.com. "You just come up with ideas and it doesn't have to be traditional. It just has to be from your heart, a feeling that makes sense, that compliments whatever song it may be." 

Sheila's energy and unique approach to playing drums, timbale, and percussion caught the attention of Prince, a unique artist in his own right. The two spent decades as creative partners – Sheila acting as the Purple One's drummer, producer, musical director and, for a time, romantic partner; Prince shepherded her 1984 solo debut, A Glamorous Life, into being — and worked together until his death. Among her lasting contributions to their musical legacy, Sheila performed on the Purple Rain sessions and toured the album, and her vocals appear on "Erotic City." The two duetted on Sheila's 1986 single "A Love Bizarre" and, fittingly, got engaged in the middle of a performance.

In addition to her list of impressive accomplishments (which include co-founding the educational nonprofit Elevate Oakland), Sheila E has released eight albums as a solo artist. Her ninth, Bailar, finds the one avenue Sheila had yet to pursue: salsa. 

Recorded in Miami with a cast of local musicians, the 10-track record features originals and covers in both Spanish and English, and its lead single — an energetic cover of Celia Cruz's "Bemba Colorá featuring Gloria Estefan & Mimy Succar — fittingly has Sheila playing percussion, timbale and singing. 

"This is the best record I've ever done. I feel that good about it," she says. Ahead of Bailar's April 5 release, Sheila E. spoke with GRAMMY.com about creating music in a new idiom, the importance of collaboration, and finding space in music. 

This interview has been edited for clarity.

You've been working in the funk, R&B and pop space for years. What brought you to salsa now?

I've wanted to do a salsa record for a long time. My bucket list is extensive, and then I met [GRAMMY-winning producer and timbale player] Tony Succar in 2015… he did a project and took Michael Jackson songs and flipped them into salsa. I said, "Man, if I ever do my salsa record, we have to do it together because you understand."

I'm bringing that Oakland vibe to salsa. My dad was a Latin jazz artist — that's the foundation of who I am —  however, he also played salsa music in the house. I grew up listening to Tito Puente, Mongo Santamaria, Ray Barretto, Eddie Palmieri, Celia Cruz and Tito Rodriguez, and the Fania All-Stars.  Our whole family loves salsa dancing.

There was music that I had written for an R&B album that I didn't release, and I said we can take some of this and flip it into salsa. This is another side of me that I'm excited about sharing with the people. 

Bailar sounds like something you would hear in New York or Miami, but there's something slightly different about it. What are you bringing to this record that might be different from another salsa band?

Salsa is very demanding. It's specific and traditional; there are things that are supposed to be played in specific sections of a song — whether it's a conga rhythm, a timbal rhythm, a cowbell rhythm. The element of the Bay Area and the Latin jazz with a little bit of funk, that was me [adding something new]. 

I always wanted to do "Bemba Colorá." I did a rumba in front of it and took a conga solo, and when I got to the half-time of that song, I said, "I want to take a drum solo." I don't think anyone has taken a drum solo or have even played drums on this song…especially a woman. Just adding different elements like that, as well as the way that I mix: where I place the horns and where I place the percussion and where the bells are and where the drums are. 

Tony Succar and I produced this record together. I did a couple of arrangements [and] co-wrote seven of the 10 songs. The songs that I had already written were arranged, but then we wanted to flip them into salsa. 

Are there any other songs on this record that you're particularly proud of?

All of them. Every one is a different story. The only woman that I could think of to call [for "Bemba Colorá"] was Gloria Estefan; she's like my sister. Mimi Succar is a new and upcoming artist, so we had her to sing as well, and the three of us just had a blast. 

[Also] playing "Anacaona," which is a song I used to hear [by] Fania All-Stars and Cheo Feliciano. My dream was to have Rubén Blades sing on my record; he sang that song and I started crying. I was just overwhelmed. 

["El Rey del Timbal"] was one song that I had played with Tito [Puente] and my dad many times. When Tony sent me the demo, I listened to it and was like, "We got to go way faster than that. If Tito was playing it, he would've played it this way, and I know because I've played it with him."  So I started taking a solo, banging my legs while I was listening to it through the phone, and I just kept going faster, and then Tony's like, "Are you serious? This is 200-something BPMs." 

It was perfect for me taking the timbale solo, but when I had to then overdub and play all the parts on the bells and everything, it was so fast, I was like, What was I thinking? The horn section had it worse. A trumpet player yelled on the track  — "Ahh!" —  and I boosted him yelling [on the final mix], because that's real stuff.  It took everything for them. 

I'd love to hear a little bit about your relationship with Tito Puente and any important musical lessons he taught you, especially now that you're coming out with an album that's very much influenced by his work.

He was such an influence. He was amazing. He did so much for us as a family, musically, as well as being our friend and growing up listening to him. He and my dad met when they were 18, and having him around the house when I was growing up, I didn't even know he was.  

The biggest thing was we would go to New York, my dad and I, and we would sit in with Tito at the Palladium and the Corso. And back then, you'd have four bands playing in one night until 6 in the morning. And they would jump from one club to the other. It was the most stressful time because, as jazz artists, we didn't hardly sit in with salsa bands. I was like, "But papa, I don't know the clave, I don't understand what bell pattern or what conga pattern to play." He goes, "Don't worry about it. You don't listen to those guys. You just go play you."

So he kept encouraging [me]: it doesn't matter, you have the heart to go ahead. And my pops would say the same thing: We might not understand it technically, but we play it from our heart. [Tito] always encouraged me, and I got to play with Celia, Tito and [bassist] Cachao [Lopez] at the same time.

What a dream come true. Tito introduced me to all of these musicians as well, but really just telling everybody, "You be quiet and just let Sheila play."

Read more: Celebrating Tito Puente's Centennial: 10 Essential Songs By The Mambo King

Bailar is a bit more celebratory than your last album, 2017's Iconic: Message 4 America, which was heavily political. Obviously we continue to live in increasingly fraught times; why was it important for you to put more positive messages out into the world? One of your tracks is even called "Possibilities."

We are living in hard times, and it's challenging. Things are changing every single day. And everyone is going through something every single day.  One of the things that has been such a blessing to me is the gift of music. I don't take it for granted. To be able to share music and at least make people happy for the five minutes that you listen to this song or the entire record…is healing.

Many times in my shows, people end up crying. It's emotional, and music brings joy. It lifts you up. It brings you to a place of happiness and love, and we just want you to have a good time. But the joy that I get to be able to do this, it heals me too. And I just thought it was important.

Your work and relationship with Prince is so extensive and deep. What would you consider the peak of your creative partnership?

I don't think there ever was. We continued to grow and just kept experimenting on different sounds, and recording and jamming. We first jammed together in 1977 when he came to my house. We either recorded or played together [on] so many songs. There's still tons of stuff in the vault…I counted at least 200 songs I played on that I haven't even heard yet.

We were always jamming, coming up with something, or recording. A lot of times I would engineer for him as well; it's just he and I [in the room] most of the time. I taught myself some engineering when I was growing up; I saved all my money and started buying recording gear so I could learn how to write and produce myself when I was in my teens. 

So when I started to record with [Prince], I had already recorded songs on tape before. Being in the studio with him, we would see who could stay up the longest, who's going to fall asleep first. We would catch each other [falling asleep] almost at the same time. 

*You also worked with Prince on your debut album, 1984's The Glamorous Life. You'd been working so much as a musician up to that point already that it's interesting to think of it as your debut. How did you work on that project together?*

We had already been jamming and playing together before we did all that. And I had been out on tour with so many artists beforehand; when we first met, I was already touring with George Duke in the mid-'70s. [Prince was] like, "I've been watching you and I'm following your career, and maybe one day we could do something together." 

He started doing all these albums, and then he becomes the Prince that we all know. He changed every record, which was amazing musically. At the time [we recorded Glamorous Life], he was at Sunset Sound [recording studio and] he had all the rooms going at the same time. We just went in and started recording.

Prince was very involved in getting me the deal with Warner Brothers. He just one day said, "You want to do the record now?" And I was like, "Yeah, I think I'm ready. Let's do it." It was that simple. We went into the studio and we were pretty much done with my record, from top to bottom, in a week.

We just stayed in there, literally no sleep. We were so excited. We had so much fun.

Back then, I wasn't really playing drums a lot. I wanted to make sure that my percussion was in the forefront, and he knew that too. That's how Glamorous Life came about, to showcase me in a light that I wasn't really a singer. I was a percussion player leading my band, playing timbales, which no one really understood because, in pop culture, no one had done that. 

So it took even a minute for [Warner Brothers] to understand releasing the record. They wanted to release "Belle of St. Mark" first as the single and not "Glamorous Life"; I had to fight them on it because I said, "'Glamorous Life' is a song that is important to me, and it showcases me as a percussionist and a singer. If I do 'Belle of St. Mark,' it's only me singing. I'm not even playing percussion."

I would love to hear about other musical collaborators who are a big part of your story.

I've been able to play with so many people: George Duke and my dad, and [drummer] Billy Cobham, [bassist] Alfonso Johnson, and it went on. Then [jazz guitarist] Lee Ritenour and [jazz pianist] Patrice Rushen and all of these other artists; Herbie Hancock…. Then you go switch over to Marvin Gaye, and then you go to Brooks & Dunn. I just hopped all over the place with Con Funk Shun and sitting in with so many people and recording. When we do these events, you get to sit and play with Phil Collins and Elton John; I'll just play percussion, I'll be the backup. I don't need to be in the front. Part of what I love is I get to be on both sides.

I can be a team player and play with a group, which is so exciting. Or if you want to feature me, that's fine. That's kind of what had happened throughout my life; anyone that I performed with would just say, "Sheila, you just go out in the front." They would push me out there. Marvin Gaye is like, "Sheila, you take over. I'm going to go back and change." He made it a part of his show. And then same thing with Lionel Richie. Everyone would just feature me, it became that thing. Everyone has influenced me in some sort of way.

You're out there being featured and just putting so much into your performances. You have this incredible amount of energy. What powers you?

God's given me the gift and point-blank. I am forever grateful to be able to do what I get to do because of that gift. I don't take it for granted. 

You have musical directed the Obama's Festival Latina, the Recording Academy's Tribute to Prince, and of course, you were his musical director for many years. Does that work require a special set of musical muscles?

When it comes to music and just being an artist, whatever you put into it is what you get out. I would always do the homework that was needed to play with an artist — learn all the music — so when I walked into a situation, I would walk in with confidence. I wasn't a great reader at all; it was really all by ear. That preparation is everything. 

Putting together my first ever band during that time in the early '80s, I knew what I wanted. [Today] I'm able to put together projects and put the right people together. For some people, it's just a gig and for me, it's more than that. It's a lifestyle and it's family and it's trust and it's respect. 

How did you choose the music for "Let's Go Crazy: The GRAMMY Tribute To Prince"?

Some of the songs they already had, some of the other songs I suggested. Almost everything that they were going to play, I knew and I had a lot of the original music. I had a lot of the samples; I had Prince's vocals. There were things that I had that could help in some of the arrangements, and a lot of the arrangements I used from my show. 

You try to adjust to make sure that [the artists] shine and that they feel comfortable, because everyone was really nervous. I had many conversations with people making sure, "Is this a good key for you?" Making sure that "You don't have to sing it like Prince. This is your representation of who you are and you happen to be doing a Prince song and no one's going to judge you for it." 

Speaking of collaborative efforts, The Greatest Night in Pop music doc came out recently. What do you remember from recording "We Are the World"? 

I kind of didn't want to do it because, initially, we were on the Purple Rain tour [and] we were exhausted. At some point I thought,  Do I even belong in that caliber of people? 

[At the "We Are The World" session,] everyone was hanging out, everybody was really cool. No one had a huge entourage. I was excited to meet people I hadn't met before. One of the people I was excited about meeting was Cyndi Lauper. I loved her. I wanted to meet Bruce Springsteen, the boss. 

In that moment of being in that room with everyone, and it was just amazing to [think], Wow, we're going to do something incredible to be able to raise money for people who are starving.  Then you just take a breath and you do what you do, and then things happen.

Do you think that you have changed or contributed to the sound of percussion in R&B and pop music?

My style is my style. Different artists from the Bay — Sly and the Family Stone, Carlos Santana, my dad's band [Azteca], Grateful Dead, Tower Of Power, of course, Pointer Sisters — listening to all those bands and being able to watch their rehearsals when I was a teenager influenced me. 

The key was being adaptable to what needed to be for that specific song. You have to make up your own beats, because being a percussion player is like [working on] a beautiful painting that's already painted and they're asking you to put one color in there or you see a space — what would you put in that space? 

It's not about playing all over the place and playing something that doesn't belong. You have to figure out those spaces and, to me, the most important part of music is space. That space is what allows a song to breathe.

I would use different things even in the studios; I didn't use all of the right mics all the time. I would bite on an apple and sample it and put that sound on top of the snare. I just experimented. I started on pots and pans, and I used keys, and I used a spray bottle can that blows out air to clean your computer as a high hat. Everything can be musical. 

One of the biggest things is Michael Jackson's "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough." Quincy [Jones] had called me and said, "Michael wants this kind of sound, I don't know what it is, bring all your toys." I brought everything. I ended up getting two bottles and I poured water in it, and I used the holder to play the triangle on the sides of the bottle. So "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough" has those bottles.  

You just come up with ideas and it doesn't have to be traditional. It just has to be from your heart, a feeling that makes sense, that compliments whatever song it may be.

Are there any other female percussionists out there right now that you see carrying the torch that you lit?

Oh my God. There are so many drummers right now. I go on social media frequently throughout the week, and I try to find at least someone new and DM them and say, "You're amazing. God bless you. Thank you for your gift. Keep doing what you're doing," and people freak out. 

That's part of my job, to continue to encourage the young people to keep playing. 

You've mentioned in previous interviews that you've dealt with a lot of harassment throughout your career as a woman playing an instrument that women don't traditionally play. I'd like to know how you continued to move forward and own your vision in an industry, and in an era, where women are often belittled or posited as like sex objects.

When I first started, I didn't know it was a big deal that I was one of few — or one of one — that was doing what I was doing. In the Bay Area, you see a lot of women playing percussion. In Berkeley, we all go and hang out at the park and everyone plays and it's like 20 or 30 of us and whoever brings their instrument, they just jam with us.

Coming to L.A. and recording with other artists, when I walked into a room, the drummer would say, "Can you get me a cup of coffee?" And I'm like, "I'll get it for you but I'm not the receptionist or anything. I'm the percussion player." They would freak out. 

When that first started happening and things were being said that were really rude and bad, I would go back to my parents. They would just say, "You just keep doing what you're doing. They're jealous or they're mad because you're there, or they've never seen anyone like you. You have a gift and you just go ahead. You learn the music, know what you have to do, so when you walk in with confidence, it's not an issue." A lot of the time, those musicians were not prepared, and I was, and they hated me even more because I knew everything. 

I got so much joy out of performing. And even with all the nos and the nastiness and the stuff that was being said [like], "Hey, if you sleep with me," all of these other things. It just made me stronger. You keep pushing through; you just keep playing. 

When you find your passion and that's your purpose, no one can stop you.  I stand on that word.

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Lizzo GRAMMY Rewind Hero
Lizzo at the 2023 GRAMMYs

Photo: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for The Recording Academy

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GRAMMY Rewind: Lizzo Thanks Prince For His Influence After "About Damn Time" Wins Record Of The Year In 2023

Watch Lizzo describe how Prince’s empowering sound led her to “dedicate my life to positive music” during her Record Of The Year acceptance speech for “About Damn Time” at the 2023 GRAMMYs.

GRAMMYs/Jan 19, 2024 - 06:00 pm

Since the start of her career, four-time GRAMMY winner Lizzo has been making music that radiates positive energy. Her Record Of The Year win for "About Damn Time" at the 2023 GRAMMYs proved that being true to yourself and kind to one another always wins.

Travel back to revisit the moment Lizzo won her award in the coveted category in this episode of GRAMMY Rewind. 

"Um, huh?" Lizzo exclaimed at the start of her acceptance speech. "Let me tell you something. Me and Adele are having a good time, just enjoying ourselves and rooting for our friends. So, this is an amazing night. This is so unexpected."

Lizzo kicked off her GRAMMY acceptance speech by acknowledging Prince's influence on her sound. "When we lost Prince, I decided to dedicate my life to making positive music," she said. "This was at a time when positive music and feel-good music wasn't mainstream at that point and I felt very misunderstood. I felt on the outside looking in. But I stayed true to myself because I wanted to make the world a better place so I had to be that change."

As tracks like "Good as Hell" and "Truth Hurts" scaled the charts, she noticed more body positivity and self-love anthems from other artists. "I'm just so proud to be a part of it," she cheered.

Most importantly, Lizzo credited staying true to herself despite the pushback for her win. "I promise that you will attract people in your life who believe in you and support you," she said in front of a tearful audience that included Beyoncé and Taylor Swift in standing ovation, before giving a shout-out to her team, family, partner and producers on the record, Blake Slatkin and Ricky Reed

Watch the video above for Lizzo's complete acceptance speech for Record Of The Year at the 2023 GRAMMYs. Check back to GRAMMY.com for more new episodes of GRAMMY Rewind, and be sure to tune into the 2024 GRAMMYs on Sunday, Feb. 4, airing live on the CBS Television Network (8-11:30 p.m. LIVE ET/5-8:30 p.m. LIVE PT) and streaming on Paramount+ (live and on-demand for Paramount+ with SHOWTIME subscribers, or on-demand for Paramount+ Essential subscribers the day after the special airs).

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Photo of Prince
Prince

© Paisley Park Enterprises | Photographer: Randee St. Nicholas

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Behind 'Diamonds and Pearls' Super Deluxe Edition: A Fresh Look At Prince & The New Power Generation’s Creative Process

With unreleased songs and a concert, a new series of box sets broadens the understanding of Prince's 'Diamonds and Pearls.' GRAMMY.com spoke with the New Power Generation's Tony Mosley about creating the 1991 release.

GRAMMYs/Oct 27, 2023 - 03:25 pm

When Prince released Diamonds and Pearls in October 1991, it represented both a sea change and return to form.

The 13th album since his 1978 debut, Diamonds and Pearls was Prince's first release with the New Power Generation — a band formed with several musicians who toured with him in the years since the Revolution. Where the Revolution, which disbanded in 1986, was synth-heavy, NPG were more guitar and percussion-centric. The new group was anchored by Rosie Gaines, a powerhouse vocalist and songwriter from the Bay Area, and rapper Tony M.

Aesthetically, the holographic album cover — which depicts Prince in close contact with two new faux girlfriends named Diamond and Pearl — reflected the sensuality and excess long associated with the Purple One. 

Fans devoured saucy singles such as the title track, "Gett Off," "Insatiable" and the Billboard Hot 100 No. 1, hit "Cream." The title track was nominated for Best Pop Performance By A Duo Or Group With Vocal at the 35th GRAMMY Awards; "Gett Off" was nominated for Best R&B Performance By A Duo Or Group With Vocal the previous year.

Thirty-two years later, on Oct. 27, Paisley Park Enterprises, Sony Music Entertainment and Warner Records will release remastered standard, deluxe and "super deluxe" versions of the album in digital and various physical formats on Sony’s Legacy Recordings. The latest of several posthumous album reissues, this new suite of Diamonds and Pearls releases include a variety of fresh amenities.

For example, the super deluxe edition includes 33 unreleased studio recordings, 14 live songs, 15 remastered singles (which include remixes and edits) and three hours of video, including a full live performance of the album at Glam Slam, Prince’s former Minneapolis nightclub. The album wasn’t accompanied by a tour in America, so it’s a show that Stateside fans never got to see.

"Prince collectors are excited about every release, though mileage varies," says Scott Woods, author of Prince and Little Weird Black Boy Gods. "The gold for collectors is really in unreleased material…. Even if you don't like Diamonds and Pearls, you have to love the dozens of unreleased tracks that come with it.

"I don't know most of the unreleased tracks, so it's about to be Christmas in October for me," Woods adds. 

The unreleased songs provide a gift of insight into some of Prince’s musical interests that he explored in the early '90s, including hard guitar-driven rock, house, hip-hop and New Jack Swing. Yet the original release of Diamonds and Pearls showcases Prince's experimental nature.

"He took some chances — especially on me, to bring me into the fold," admits Tony M, a.k.a. Tony Mosley, the New Power Generation’s rapper who was also a dancer and appeared in Purple Rain. The pop community felt like Prince had ditched them and his fan base didn't want to hear rap, Mosley shared. "So how are we going to bridge this gap? There were plenty of times I felt like I was swinging at both sides." 

Mosley co-wrote and/or appeared on several songs on Diamonds and Pearls, including "Gett Off," and he contributed heavily to several of the previously unreleased songs on the super deluxe edition. Many of the previously unreleased songs contain riffs and iterations of ideas that appear on the original album track listing, so listeners can get a notion of how he refined the known songs along the way.

Since Prince was notoriously guarded about all of the unreleased material in his vaunted Paisley Park vault, he may not have wanted his fans to hear some of the works in progress that are included in the super deluxe edition. But they offer a much-welcomed window into his creative processes that will strengthen a fan’s ardor for the artist.

"[Prince] was so protective and so reclusive on a lot of this stuff," Mosley says. 

"Some of [the tracks], we were like, ‘Man, this is it, you need to drop this now!’ But it would never see the light of day. I’m glad, in the same breath, that some of these things are coming out, because you see a different side to him… it gives the fans an opportunity to see how he progressed and began to put songs together."

While none of the tracks were finished, the foundation was there, Mosley explained. "Once he brought in the musicians to expand upon the original idea, you start to see it flourish and grow and bloom into something totally different."

"I remember being fascinated with the rapper on the album, Tony M," Public Enemy frontman Chuck D wrote in an essay that accompanies the super deluxe edition called "He Taught Everyone You Can Never Make Too Much Music." "I thought he was just dope, thought what they were doing was funkier and more on point than anything that was going on in the rap circles and R&B at that moment, and they were on it.

"Prince definitely used rap as an instrument. He kept the tempos up and strong, and the music was giving it air and space, and I don’t think a lot of rap records were doing that," he continued.

The beyond-prolific Prince didn’t exactly have patience for the long album cycles that were typical from major labels of the era. While he was touring the Diamonds and Pearls album, he was writing songs that would appear on 1992’s Love Symbol.

"By the time [Diamonds and Pearls] came out, we had three more albums in the can and he was ready for the next project," Mosley recalls, "and I just remember listening to the argument over and over and over again. You know, Warner Brothers looks at it from a business perspective — they’re, like, ‘Dude, there’s five more singles on this album, we need to work this.’ And Prince was like, ‘I’m done, I’m ready to drop the next one.’"

Remembered for its nakedly brazen jams (and the accompanying assless outfits) as well as its super sweet ballads, Diamonds and Pearls remains a highly listenable effort among Prince’s vast discography.

"It holds its value," Mosley says of hearing the album today. "We were moving so fast at the time and we were just constantly recording and you didn’t really have time to sit back and reflect on what you had just created because he had moved on. So you had to move at that pace. When I go back and I start to listen to a lot of that stuff, I say, man, we really did some different things, some creative things.

"It was frustrating at times. But, he had his vision, and one thing he always schooled me to do and taught me along the way, he said, ‘Tony, I don’t write for everybody else, I write for me and what I’m feeling," Mosley recalls. "So when you write, don’t write to impress a certain demographic or community, write what comes from you.’" 

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